Opinions for Moving Abroad

[Light]

Answer with your opinion.

How much money should someone on the younger side have saved before they move abroad?

Is it better to buy a studio or 1 room flat for $30,000 or to try to rent a place at the same price as a local.

[yick]

The best thing to do is find a place where you can be legal and where you can be legal on a long term basis.

So a lot of Asian countries DON'T offer citizenship or it is next to impossible to gain citizenship, so what's happening in Thailand now is that a lot of retirees are on the verge of getting kicked out despite the fact they have invested heavily into their retirement there - one minute they were fine with the pension requirements until the Thai government decided to change the limits - that can happen and there isn't a thing you can do about it and if you're 80 and you have a house full of your shite and you have to go back to your home country because they have changed the laws - that isn't something you want to happen to you. I would love to see my days out in Malaysia - I love being there but they offer 10 year renewable visas - suppose one day they change the criteria and oops - sorry - you don't qualify anymore - bye bye back to England - I am f***ed aren't I? Those risks are fine when you're a young man but when you're old - you don't bloody well need them! Or I don't, anyway.

A lot of Latin America DO offer citizenship - which means you can stay there forever - this usually means marriage - that's the way in with a lot of these countries, Europe is very hard to get permenant residence or citizenship - usually, it is five years permenant residence, a lot of Latin America is two to three years.

Jobs - research what you think you can do and learn the language - I think if I was young again I would like to have learned how to be a baker and patisierre - you can go to the Philippines and learn how to do that and open your own shop - I am just putting that out there because people slag off English teaching but that is the best buck for your money at the moment because a lot of the world needs English teachers - so, if you are in college, get an education degree and your licence or get a masters degree in linguistics and TEFL - you'll never be out of work in a lot of the world.

[yick]

I didn't answer your question - apologies - use that 30000 to find where you would like to live - in fact - use that money to invest a couple of years in going to a university of the country of your choice and learning the language of the country you want to live in - 30000 dollars is four years worth of Chinese lessons at any good Chinese university - same with Spanish in Spain, Russian in Russia.

Why go to university - because you will meet lots and lots of nice, educated local women - one of them might like you back.

In Peru - 30000 dollars will get you a hut on the side of a mountain in a barrio called 'Spot-The-White-Man'

[Light]

The best thing to do is find a place where you can be legal and where you can be legal on a long term basis.

So a lot of Asian countries DON'T offer citizenship or it is next to impossible to gain citizenship, so what's happening in Thailand now is that a lot of retirees are on the verge of getting kicked out despite the fact they have invested heavily into their retirement there - one minute they were fine with the pension requirements until the Thai government decided to change the limits - that can happen and there isn't a thing you can do about it and if you're 80 and you have a house full of your shite and you have to go back to your home country because they have changed the laws - that isn't something you want to happen to you. I would love to see my days out in Malaysia - I love being there but they offer 10 year renewable visas - suppose one day they change the criteria and oops - sorry - you don't qualify anymore - bye bye back to England - I am f***ed aren't I? Those risks are fine when you're a young man but when you're old - you don't bloody well need them!

A lot of Latin America DO offer citizenship - which means you can stay there forever - this usually means marriage - that's the way in with a lot of these countries, Europe is very hard to get permenant residence or citizenship - usually, it is five years permenant residence, a lot of Latin America is two to three years.

Jobs - research what you think you can do and learn the language - I think if I was young again I would like to have learned how to be a baker and patisierre - you can go to the Philippines and learn how to do that and open your own shop - I am just putting that out there because people slag off English teaching but that is the best buck for your money at the moment because a lot of the world needs English teachers - so, if you are in college, get an education degree and your licence or get a masters degree in linguistics and TEFL - you'll never be out of work in a lot of the world.

I already have a place where I can be legal and legal on a long-term basis in Europe so I have that covered.

[Light]

I didn't answer your question - apologies - use that 30000 to find where you would like to live - in fact - use that money to invest a couple of years in going to a university of the country of your choice and learning the language of the country you want to live in - 30000 dollars is four years worth of Chinese lessons at any good Chinese university - same with Spanish in Spain, Russian in Russia.

Why go to university - because you will meet lots and lots of nice, educated local women - one of them might like you back.

In Peru - 30000 dollars will get you a hut on the side of a mountain in a barrio called 'Spot-The-White-Man'

How much of the language should I ahead of time if I wanted to go a university in a place like Serbia or Russia? Do other countries in the world have something similar to America's English Second Language courses for immigrants needing to learn English?

I am open to going to university somewhere in Europe.

I don't want to offend anyone but I will be avoiding places like France, Germany, and other European countries where there's too many Middle Easterners and sub-Saharan Africans. They bring too much crime and the countries they usually go to are the wealthier countries that I believe have many feminist women with the same unrealistic standards like the American women.

I have looked at some flats and houses online in countries like Slovakia, Bulgaria, and the Baltic nations. Some look decent for a 30,000 cost. Some in Bulgaria are new construction for that price so it can't be impossible. I know 70,000 or 100,000 Euro can get a great flat but I know I will be a new immigrant starting at the bottom so a nice starter flat is better. I'm single so I wouldn't need too much space.

Most Europeans know the stock market is a scam. Many Europeans save cash, gold, and real estate. Renting and AirBnB is also big in Europe. I know from previous experience.

I don't have an American look, personality, behavior, or attitude so I should be accepted more in Europe. I'm white but not the American white. I'm more of a Mediterranean or Balkan white but some people overseas have also asked if I was Russian.

[yick]

I didn't answer your question - apologies - use that 30000 to find where you would like to live - in fact - use that money to invest a couple of years in going to a university of the country of your choice and learning the language of the country you want to live in - 30000 dollars is four years worth of Chinese lessons at any good Chinese university - same with Spanish in Spain, Russian in Russia.

Why go to university - because you will meet lots and lots of nice, educated local women - one of them might like you back.

In Peru - 30000 dollars will get you a hut on the side of a mountain in a barrio called 'Spot-The-White-Man'

How much of the language should I ahead of time if I wanted to go a university in a place like Serbia or Russia? Do other countries in the world have something similar to America's English Second Language courses for immigrants needing to learn English?

I am open to going to university somewhere in Europe.

I don't want to offend anyone but I will be avoiding places like France, Germany, and other European countries where there's too many Middle Easterners and sub-Saharan Africans. They bring too much crime and the countries they usually go to are the wealthier countries that I believe have many feminist women with the same unrealistic standards like the American women.

I have looked at some flats and houses online in countries like Slovakia, Bulgaria, and the Baltic nations. Some look decent for a 30,000 cost. Some in Bulgaria are new construction for that price so it can't be impossible. I know 70,000 or 100,000 Euro can get a great flat but I know I will be a new immigrant starting at the bottom so a nice starter flat is better. I'm single so I wouldn't need too much space.

Most Europeans know the stock market is a scam. Many Europeans save cash, gold, and real estate. Renting and AirBnB is also big in Europe. I know from previous experience.

I don't have an American look, personality, behavior, or attitude so I should be accepted more in Europe. I'm white but not the American white. I'm more of a Mediterranean or Balkan white but some people overseas have also asked if I was Russian.

If you want to meet Russian women then a Russian university would be a great place to meet them. Here are two universities in Yekaterinberg and in Chelyabinsk that have year long courses and they're great value. The SUSU course is a 1000 dollars for a full year.

https://urfu.ru/en/international/progra ... n-russian/

https://www.susu.ru/en/education/founda ... l-students

As for your pretty slanted views on sub-Saharan Africans and Muslims and the rest of it - outside the main centres and capital cities - you won't be seeing that many - even in the UK which is one of the most multi-cultural countries in Europe - go outside the main areas and it's white and British and usually working class - I know you wanted to insert your social views into this thread which is fine - you are entitled to seek out what you want - but it isn't an issue for the vast majority of Europe. Saying that - Russia is FULL of Muslims.

I don't have an American look, personality, behavior, or attitude so I should be accepted more in Europe. I'm white but not the American white. I'm more of a Mediterranean or Balkan white but some people overseas have also asked if I was Russian.

What do you mean by 'accepted'?

People don't accept others because of skin colour or how they look, it isn't how it works - Brexit was about the rejection of too many Poles and other Eastern Europeans in the UK - at least 98% of them are white, before that, it was the Irish and they're white as well.

White on white xenophobia and racism - a lot of it can be violent - is pretty common all over Europe, probably moreso than black on white/white on black violence.

Want do you want out of their acceptance - that they see you the same as them?

[Light]

I didn't answer your question - apologies - use that 30000 to find where you would like to live - in fact - use that money to invest a couple of years in going to a university of the country of your choice and learning the language of the country you want to live in - 30000 dollars is four years worth of Chinese lessons at any good Chinese university - same with Spanish in Spain, Russian in Russia.

Why go to university - because you will meet lots and lots of nice, educated local women - one of them might like you back.

In Peru - 30000 dollars will get you a hut on the side of a mountain in a barrio called 'Spot-The-White-Man'

How much of the language should I ahead of time if I wanted to go a university in a place like Serbia or Russia? Do other countries in the world have something similar to America's English Second Language courses for immigrants needing to learn English?

I am open to going to university somewhere in Europe.

I don't want to offend anyone but I will be avoiding places like France, Germany, and other European countries where there's too many Middle Easterners and sub-Saharan Africans. They bring too much crime and the countries they usually go to are the wealthier countries that I believe have many feminist women with the same unrealistic standards like the American women.

I have looked at some flats and houses online in countries like Slovakia, Bulgaria, and the Baltic nations. Some look decent for a 30,000 cost. Some in Bulgaria are new construction for that price so it can't be impossible. I know 70,000 or 100,000 Euro can get a great flat but I know I will be a new immigrant starting at the bottom so a nice starter flat is better. I'm single so I wouldn't need too much space.

Most Europeans know the stock market is a scam. Many Europeans save cash, gold, and real estate. Renting and AirBnB is also big in Europe. I know from previous experience.

I don't have an American look, personality, behavior, or attitude so I should be accepted more in Europe. I'm white but not the American white. I'm more of a Mediterranean or Balkan white but some people overseas have also asked if I was Russian.

If you want to meet Russian women then a Russian university would be a great place to meet them. Here are two universities in Yekaterinberg and in Chelyabinsk that have year long courses and they're great value. The SUSU course is a 1000 dollars for a full year.

https://urfu.ru/en/international/progra ... n-russian/

https://www.susu.ru/en/education/founda ... l-students

As for your pretty slanted views on sub-Saharan Africans and Muslims and the rest of it - outside the main centres and capital cities - you won't be seeing that many - even in the UK which is one of the most multi-cultural countries in Europe - go outside the main areas and it's white and British and usually working class - I know you wanted to insert your social views into this thread which is fine - you are entitled to seek out what you want - but it isn't an issue for the vast majority of Europe. Saying that - Russia is FULL of Muslims.

I don't have an American look, personality, behavior, or attitude so I should be accepted more in Europe. I'm white but not the American white. I'm more of a Mediterranean or Balkan white but some people overseas have also asked if I was Russian.

What do you mean by 'accepted'?

People don't accept others because of skin colour or how they look, it isn't how it works - Brexit was about the rejection of too many Poles and other Eastern Europeans in the UK - at least 98% of them are white, before that, it was the Irish and they're white as well.

White on white xenophobia and racism - a lot of it can be violent - is pretty common all over Europe, probably moreso than black on white/white on black violence.

Want do you want out of their acceptance - that they see you the same as them?

Thank you for the links to the universities. 1000 dollars for a full year is a good deal. Studying in Russia would also be a good way to live in Russia.

I do not have a slanted view on sub-Saharan Africans or Middle Easterners. I have great respect for them as a people and many of their societies. I am just being honest about how a small minority of the migrants and refugees in Europe do cause real big issues like the most rapes, the most murders, and most other crimes. I know many are good people. My statement was taken out of context. I am not racist or xenophobic but I can't ignore the facts.

Everyone who accepts reality knows Arabs are some of the most friendly, hospitable, and honest people in the world. Africans in Africa are also some of the most friendly people in the world.

Leaving a country like America or the UK and moving to a place like Poland would be much more different. Anglo societies are more xenophobic than most other societies.

An immigrant will never really ever be the same as a native born person. That's been true forever but immigrants can get acceptance. Acceptance is complicated because it means different things for different people.

[yick]

I am just being honest about how a small minority of the migrants and refugees in Europe do cause real big issues like the most rapes, the most murders, and most other crimes. I know many are good people. My statement was taken out of context. I am not racist or xenophobic but I can't ignore the facts.

Let's not do this because what you have said there is NOT true - most murders and rapes in any country in Europe are done by citizens living there.

Are there bad refugees living in Europe, yes, there are good and bad people in any demographic - but migrants and refugees don't commit most of the murders and rapes in any country in Europe you care to name.

What you have just stated AREN'T facts.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 84166.html

And in Sweden, you don't know who rapes who because they don't keep those statistics about refugees, migrants and whatever crime they commit

https://www.thelocal.se/20180508/why-sw ... -and-crime

An immigrant will never really ever be the same as a native born person. That's been true forever but immigrants can get acceptance. Acceptance is complicated because it means different things for different people.

Indeed, some people will accept you and some people won't - your job is not to give a shit what most people think.

That and most people will think you're an American anyway.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Answer with your opinion.

How much money should someone on the younger side have saved before they move abroad?

Is it better to buy a studio or 1 room flat for $30,000 or to try to rent a place at the same price as a local.

The amount of money depends in both the country and the individual’s lifestyle. I personally think that one should not expat without some measure of passive income flowing.

As far as buying a flat, that would be a horrible idea. In fact, never, ever, ever, buy a property unless it is an investment property yielding you money each month. Renting gives you flexibility to move and adjust for new opportunities or for lifestyle changes.

In an ideal situation, you would get a job, rent an apartment, and purchase an apartment to rent out for extra income but $30,000 seems a little low for that in Europe.

[gsjackson]

Answer with your opinion.

How much money should someone on the younger side have saved before they move abroad?

Is it better to buy a studio or 1 room flat for $30,000 or to try to rent a place at the same price as a local.

The amount of money depends in both the country and the individual’s lifestyle. I personally think that one should not expat without some measure of passive income flowing.

As far as buying a flat, that would be a horrible idea. In fact, never, ever, ever, buy a property unless it is an investment property yielding you money each month. Renting gives you flexibility to move and adjust for new opportunities or for lifestyle changes.

In an ideal situation, you would get a job, rent an apartment, and purchase an apartment to rent out for extra income but $30,000 seems a little low for that in Europe.

Agree. There are, though, decent places in Europe where you can buy small flats for $15-20K. Two beach communities that are party central in the summer (reputedly cheap Ibizas) -- Sunny Beach, Bulgaria and Batumi, Georgia -- somewhat overbuilt on condos and sell a lot of smaller ones in that range. These can be rented out in the summer when you don't use them, producing a small income, though only in season.

I spoke with a Polish woman from a city of around 150K people -- can't recall the name -- and she said smaller condos there went for around 15K. Management fees and property taxes tend to be (often quite a bit) lower in Europe.

But for western Europe and any European capital -- even ones like Bucharest, where the average income is very low -- $30K won't get you anything. People inherit these units in a place like Bucharest and hang on to them, so there's not much of a market.

Numbeo has what I suppose are reasonably accurate figures for most any European city you'd be interested in.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Answer with your opinion.

How much money should someone on the younger side have saved before they move abroad?

Is it better to buy a studio or 1 room flat for $30,000 or to try to rent a place at the same price as a local.

The amount of money depends in both the country and the individual’s lifestyle. I personally think that one should not expat without some measure of passive income flowing.

As far as buying a flat, that would be a horrible idea. In fact, never, ever, ever, buy a property unless it is an investment property yielding you money each month. Renting gives you flexibility to move and adjust for new opportunities or for lifestyle changes.

In an ideal situation, you would get a job, rent an apartment, and purchase an apartment to rent out for extra income but $30,000 seems a little low for that in Europe.

Agree. There are, though, decent places in Europe where you can buy small flats for $15-20K. Two beach communities that are party central in the summer (reputedly cheap Ibizas) -- Sunny Beach, Bulgaria and Batumi, Georgia -- somewhat overbuilt on condos and sell a lot of smaller ones in that range. These can be rented out in the summer when you don't use them, producing a small income, though only in season.

I spoke with a Polish woman from a city of around 150K people -- can't recall the name -- and she said smaller condos there went for around 15K. Management fees and property taxes tend to be (often quite a bit) lower in Europe.

But for western Europe and any European capital -- even ones like Bucharest, where the average income is very low -- $30K won't get you anything. People inherit these units in a place like Bucharest and hang on to them, so there's not much of a market.

Numbeo has what I suppose are reasonably accurate figures for most any European city you'd be interested in.

If I were in his shoes, a good real estate syndication like Cardone Capital or Fundrise would be much smarter than buying a place. That way he would get a dividend payment and appreciation but he would not have the headaches of being a landlord.

I sold all my properties 3 years ago and now I just sit back and collect dividends. It is so much and easier requires less capital than a new residence.

[gsjackson]

Looks like $30K gets you most of the way into a small place in, say, Bucharest and Sofia. $34,500 in Bucharest and $32,400 in Sofia for a 300 sq. ft. place, according to Numbeo. That's outside the city center. More expensive closer in, but public transportation gets you into the center easily.

The beach places like Sunny Beach and Batumi are managed for you by the condo builder, presumably avoiding all the hassles, but also dwindling the profits down to almost nothing. I had some rental properties a few years back and it was a nightmare. Finding decent property managers (this was in the U.S.) was even harder than finding decent tenants. My experience is that everybody in the U.S. will try to gouge you for as much money as possible, so avoid doing business there. And owning rental properties is very much dealing with people in business relations.

[CannedHam]

I'd focus on South America at this point. Costa Rica, Panama, Peru, Colombia, maybe Mexico and Ecuador are still okay in some areas. Or maybe the Philippines.

Avoid China. Thailand is getting tougher. Not sure about Vietnam or Malaysia. Japan is surprisingly not bad (permanent residence and citizenship are straightforward) but it has its own set of issues like high cost, little spoken English (and Japanese is HARD), and so so tolerance of foreigners.

All of your questions unfortunately depend on the exact country you end up in.

[Light]

Agree. There are, though, decent places in Europe where you can buy small flats for $15-20K. Two beach communities that are party central in the summer (reputedly cheap Ibizas) -- Sunny Beach, Bulgaria and Batumi, Georgia -- somewhat overbuilt on condos and sell a lot of smaller ones in that range. These can be rented out in the summer when you don't use them, producing a small income, though only in season.

I spoke with a Polish woman from a city of around 150K people -- can't recall the name -- and she said smaller condos there went for around 15K. Management fees and property taxes tend to be (often quite a bit) lower in Europe.

But for western Europe and any European capital -- even ones like Bucharest, where the average income is very low -- $30K won't get you anything. People inherit these units in a place like Bucharest and hang on to them, so there's not much of a market.

Numbeo has what I suppose are reasonably accurate figures for most any European city you'd be interested in.

I think inheriting is always how most people do better than previous generations and accumulate wealth but typically only one child will inherit a property.

Maybe that is why many ordinary Europeans usually only have one child if they have children?

[Shemp]

To succeed in life, you need to either: (a) control the levers of power in a domain, and thus be positioned to skim a percentage of everyone's income within that domain, or (b) be a source of profit or other usefulness to those who control the levers of power. As an immigrant, option (a) is ruled out unless you marry into the local power elite, which is unlikely. Regarding option (b), how does your ownership of real estate benefit the elite? Ownership, I repeat, not managing or maintaining or other hard work. Answer: it doesn't. Ownership, and thus raking off passive income as actual or imputed rents, is a privilege jealously guarded by the elite. (Though to some extent shared in developed countries, because this sharing encourages savings which provide a new way for the elite to skim percentages). Peons, including immigrants, are supposed to pay rents, not receive rents. Therefore, if some peon immigrant is foolish enough to buy property, he can expect all his profits to be legally stolen by the local elite in one way or another (taxes, fines, lawyers, overcharging on repairs, etc). In the worst case, he'll lose all the money spent to buy the property in the first place. (Though to be fair, elites usually aren't this greedy, since they don't want to scare off the next round of suckers from "investing" in their local economy.)

The real question is how you are going to earn income abroad. If you live in a poor country and sell services (such as software development) to rich countries, you become a valuable milk cow to the local elite and will be treated well. If you sell to the locals, but provide services the locals cannot provide (such as English teaching), you are useful to the elite, though not profitable, and will be given some protection. If you sell to the locals but services you sell could also be provided by locals (such as restaurant manager), you will be exploited as badly as the elite think they can get away with exploiting you. If you can't be exploited in some way by the local elite, you'll be expelled sooner or later.