Why is America so obsessed with guns?

[Temprano26]

I live in Texas and we have people angry about our Second Amendment rights being taken away because of course Texas is such a liberal state with the strictest gun laws. It seems to be the Gun Nuts cause to flaunt their right to firearms in the tamest suburbs in the Dallas area. Austin too. I believe people should have the right to own guns in their houses but these gun fanatics just come off as lunatics.

Do you see a correlation between frustrated males and the gun culture?

[WindowLicker]

Do you see a correlation between frustrated males and the gun culture?

No, I don't. What I see is a correlation between a hostile, authoritarian centralized government increasing its own power exponentially with each passing year, and the gun culture. Another factor is increasing racial hostility aimed directly at my ethnic group.

If the resultant concern for my basic self-defense makes me "frustrated" in your opinion, go ahead and call me that. Throw in a few more cheap shots about how "paranoid", "racist" and "idiotic" I am, if you'd like. It's all the same to me.

[momopi]

I live in Texas and we have people angry about our Second Amendment rights being taken away because of course Texas is such a liberal state with the strictest gun laws. It seems to be the Gun Nuts cause to flaunt their right to firearms in the tamest suburbs in the Dallas area. Austin too. I believe people should have the right to own guns in their houses but these gun fanatics just come off as lunatics.
Do you see a correlation between frustrated males and the gun culture?

The NRA is partly to blame for pushing an all or nothing stance on gun rights. Basically we have "gun nuts" on one side who thinks you should be able to buy machine-guns cash and carry, and anti-constitution traitors on the other side who thinks gun ownership should be eventually banned.

In ye olde days, purchasing your first firearm means visiting your local department store (Sears), sporting goods store (Big 5), or K-Mart to buy a .22 target rifle or a shotgun (skeet/trap). Kids in suburbs grew up playing with BB guns and learned basic gun safety from hurting themselves with BB guns. Gun shows was about sportsman, and if you brought an AK-47 to an outdoor range, folks will look at you sideways.

Moving forward to present day, most department stores here in CA have stopped selling firearms due to low margins and anti-gun group pressures. Cities have imposed rules against discharging air rifles, including BB guns. First time buyer visits local "gun store with an attitude" and is told to buy an AR-15 & "tactical gear" because everyone else buys them. WTF? Go to a gun show today and you'd likely find vendors selling AR uppers and lowers, along with over-priced used firearms.

How the NRA leadership works is, they say that they support laws prohibiting convicted criminals from buying and owning firearms. But when it comes to actually implementing background checks and firearm confiscation from convicted criminals, the NRA cry foul. Anti-gun activists claims that they're protecting everyone from crazy people, but they won't support national mental health database.

[onethousandknives]

I think it's fairly simple. It is the one distinguishing freedom of USA vs other countries. And it allows people to say "oh look, the USA is so free, you can own ____ gun. You can't do that in Japan!" or whatever. So while gun laws exist here and are in many ways actually stricter than in Europe or Asia (especially for criminal penalties, many countries in Europe supposedly you're just fined or warned for illegal firearm ownership without actual violent use of it) it's still for the most part more free in this regard than other countries. So sure, we have the highest prison population... BUT YOU CAN OWN GUNS! Sure, you can't walk down the street drinking a beer... BUT LOOK, YOU CAN OWN GUNS! So because we can own guns, we think we're a free country. When we're just a country that you can own guns in.

Basically, to give people the illusion of freedom in their country is why the gun culture is so prevalent.

[Winston]

Yeah I've always wondered the same thing. How come Americans are obsessed with guns like its their religion and in their blood? It's like Americans have a HIVE mind about this issue and believe in it because everyone else does in their culture. I have several points to make about this issue.

1. If gun obsession is something natural or good, then how come people in other countries aren't the same way? For example, no one in Japan cares about gun rights or owning a gun. In Japan, the streets are 100 percent safe, day or night, and the government and police don't control people or do anything to them. So no one needs a gun in those countries, because such cultures are super collectivist and controlled by social culture, not by government. Taiwan is similar. I guess in countries like that where there is no individualism and everyone is into group think, there's no need for government to control people or police to bother people (unless they become outright criminals). Obviously, having guns in such cultures is useless against the social culture.

But in countries like America where everyone thinks they're a free individual, more control has to be exerted. However, ironically, Americans seem to have a HIVE mind when it comes to guns. They never think critically about it, especially in the truth movement and patriot movements. Although truthers see themselves as "freethinkers" they are never able to question their own beliefs, such as the gun religion.

But regardless, you don't see people in France or Spain or Italy fighting for gun rights. Why is it only America? Even Canadians aren't obsessed with guns like they are some sort of religion.

2. Besides, the notion of gun rights is based on the false assumption that freedom is all about government control. But it is not. There are a number of other things that affect your freedom, if you think about it, more than government does. For example.

1) Your spouse and family obligations.
2) Your job and employer.
3) The amount of money you have and its ability to buy your freedom and free you from employment and corporate slavery.
4) The social culture you live in.

The average person does not interact with government on a daily basis, not even with the police or any government official. So how is freedom all about government control, as Americans assume? It makes no sense. Even social culture is a bigger factor, because we all interact and are affected by social culture everyday. It's all around us. For example, when Americans ask "How are you?" you are required to give a positive response and say that you are good or great, that's part of the social culture you experience everyday. You are required to tip in restaurants and to any service staff as well, it's not an option like in Europe, it's an obligation. That too is part of the social culture.

All four factors above directly affect you everyday, but government does not. To give you a simple example. Suppose you want to take off to Europe for a few months and discover yourself. Obviously your family and spouse may have a problem with that and can protest. And your boss could threaten to fire you if you leave the job like that. And the amount of money you have also determines whether you can afford the trip, even if its a budget trip. But the government will not stop you. As long as you have a passport to go abroad, it doesn't care, as long as you aren't a wanted criminal. Likewise, if you want to take the day off and hang out at the park all day, the same applies. Government isn't going to stop you.

So how is freedom all about government control? I need to post this on truther and patriot sites and get their responses. If I'm right, then the philosophy of guns preserving your freedoms is faulty and fallacious and doesn't make sense. It's based on this religious beliefs that without guns, the government will become totalitarian and take away all your rights. Sure that might have happened in some situations, like under Hitler or Stalin, but it's not the norm in every country. Besides, having guns has not kept the US government small, nor has it prevented them from passing more laws to take away people's freedoms. It hasn't really accomplished anything. The US government is biggger today than its ever been.

3. Guns are also dangerous and risky to have around. People get killed from them. When you see a gun in a movie, you know at some point, something bad is gonna happen and someone will be shot at some point, and usually it's an innocent person or good person that gets shot, not just the bad guys. Why would I want every random person out there to have a gun, like in the Wild West? So anytime I get into an argument or bar brawl, there's the potential that we could settle it with guns, like in the quick draw match of the Wild West, and someone gets killed. Why is that a good thing? Any random person could blow their fuse and lose their temper and pull out their gun to settle any feud they get involved with. And if someone loses a fist fight, they could resort to pulling out their gun. How is that a good thing? Truthers and patriots never address that.

Also, if I have a gun, how do I know I won't get depressed and shoot myself? Movies for some reason LOVE to show men blowing their brains out and killing themselves. It's sickening. I don't know why Hollywood loves to show that. Are they trying to encourage it to reduce the population? It's very weird. But it's become a common trope in movies that is shown too often. But my point is, we all get depressed sometimes because life is filled with ups and downs, there's no such thing as feeling great or positive 24/7 as American culture expects. So what if you get depressed one day and get tired of living and take your gun and blow your brains out? You cannot always control that. So why leave open the possibility? Especially if its unnecessary?

Moreoever, it seems demonic posssession is a real phenomena, if you research the field of exorcisms. So how do you know some demon or dark entity won't enter your mind and encourage you to take your gun and blow your brains out? Like they love to show in the movies all the time? You can't of course. Demons are in the spirit realm and not something you can control or predict. So again, why leave that dangerous possibility open, especially if you don't have to? Why take the unnecessary risk?

Furthermore, we all know that tempers are hot these days, especially in modern America. There are a lot of frustrated angry people. What if one of these people should lose it or go berzerk and start going on a rampage and shooting people, like the school shootings you see on the news? Or in the Rampage movies? Or what if you yourself lose it and go off on a shooting rampage? Not everyone is mature and capable of good self-control you know. Some people are borderline psycho and on the edge of losing it. So why would you want them to have guns and magnify the risk of them going off on a shooting rampage? You see what I mean?

4. In addition, obsession over gun rights can lead to your demise or death. For example, look up the Ruby Ridge incident of the late 90's. Randy Weaver was obsessed with his gun rights and moved up to a mountain to defend them. When the ATF came to take away his guns, he had a shootout with them and ended up losing his wife and son, leaving only him and his daughter as survivors. So his obsession with guns was fatal and cost him the lives of two of his family members. And of courrse, any truther remembers William Cooper, one of the first conspiracy radio hosts in the 90's who was martyred in 2001, during a shootout with police. He too was obsessed with guns to the point of fanaticism and lost his life because of it. So ask yourself this: What good did gun obsession do for those men? It obviously cost them their lives. Do you want to go down the same path? Aren't there better ways of fighting for freedom than having a shootout with police and losing your life? It's kind of foolish if you think about it. You lose your life and accomplish nothing. So it's not the way to go.

Conclusion and Bottom Line:

So again, why are guns necessary? When has it ever done any good or saved any lives? Very rarely I bet. Guns are probably the worst invention in human history, and have costed countless lives. They've killed more people than atom bombs of course. Now I can understand needing a gun if you are out on an African safari and could get eaten by lions. But why need a gun in your home or on a daily basis? Unless you live in a very dangerous inner city or high crime area like South Africa, I don't see the point or need. Can anyone explain? Also, can someone explain to me how guns have preserved freedoms exactly? They don't seem to, at least not in the modern age.

I have to ask this because no one else in America has the guts to question such things or their own beliefs, not even truthers who think they are "freethinkers". Everyone seems to have a hive mind of some sort these days. You don't have true freethinkers anymore like you had in the 1700's, 1800's and early 1900's.

[Cornfed]

Didn't I already answer this question in another thread some time ago? One reason I didn't give was that if guns were banned, the effective outcome would be that whites wouldn't own them but certain minorities would.

[Winston]

Oh right. There is a gun control thread in the forum too, if anyone wants to see it.

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=27307

[Winston]

Didn't I already answer this question in another thread some time ago? One reason I didn't give was that if guns were banned, the effective outcome would be that whites wouldn't own them but certain minorities would.

What? Are you sure? I don't think most white gun owners in America would say that they fear minorities having guns. What they claim is that without guns, the US government would take away their freedoms, and bad guys would get their guns from the black market, leaving good guys defenseless. And plus, they claim the 2nd Amendment guarantees their right to gun ownership, which was the wish of the founding fathers. That's what they usually claim, with a hive mind. lol. So why do you mention minorities? Isn't that just your fear and speculation?

Anyway, my point is, can you give me some logical reasons or arguments why guns are necessary? And why they are a religion in America? Especially in the truther and patriot movements? And can you address my points above point by point? And how do guns preserve freedom exactly? I don't see how guns have preserved any American freedoms, at least not in the modern age.

[Cornfed]

Didn't I already answer this question in another thread some time ago? One reason I didn't give was that if guns were banned, the effective outcome would be that whites wouldn't own them but certain minorities would.

What? Are you sure? I don't think most white gun owners in America would say that they fear minorities having guns. What they claim is that without guns, the US government would take away their freedoms, and bad guys would get their guns from the black market, leaving good guys defenseless.

Right, exactly, and as it happens the bad guys are mostly not white.

[MrMan]

If the US has restrictions on guns, they need to be put in place legally, which means going by the constitution. Why don't we amend the constitution and trim back a little on the overreach of the 14th amendment into states rights? The states can't infringe on the right to bare arms. Why can't we have nuclear bombs? It is reasonable for there to be restrictions on some weapons.

[Cornfed]

1. If gun obsession is something natural or good, then how come people in other countries aren't the same way? For example, no one in Japan cares about gun rights or owning a gun. In Japan, the streets are 100 percent safe, day or night, and the government and police don't control people or do anything to them. So no one needs a gun in those countries

It is really a matter of life strategy. Do you want to be helpless and rely on the prevailing social conditions to persist or begging the leaders of organisations that don’t give a damn about you to protect you indefinitely - the childlike and feminine position - or do you, your family and likeminded members of your community take responsibility for protecting yourselves and each other? It is not that the former strategy doesn’t sometimes work in the short term, or even over the course of several human lifetimes. The thing is that sooner or later there will come a time when the powers that be lack the means or inclination to protect you, so in the long term being helpless is a suicide cult. For a white South African fifty years ago to argue that only the police should be armed and everyone should rely on them might have seemed reasonable. Today it would be grounds for being carted off to the nuthouse. Of course we all crave the pampered position of infancy where we are looked after and don’t have to do anything. Protecting yourself is difficult, as is earning money rather just having it given to you. Freedom ain’t free and it’s not for the faint hearted.

[Mercury]

I live in Texas and we have people angry about our Second Amendment rights being taken away because of course Texas is such a liberal state with the strictest gun laws. It seems to be the Gun Nuts cause to flaunt their right to firearms in the tamest suburbs in the Dallas area. Austin too. I believe people should have the right to own guns in their houses but these gun fanatics just come off as lunatics.

Do you see a correlation between frustrated males and the gun culture?

Because Americans love to watch strangers die. They love watching strangers weep and mourn over someone that died in a shooting. To Americans, the sight of a funeral that doesn't involve someone in their family or clique is a huge ego boost. And as said before, Americans have become a violent peoples. Not only toxic, soulless, anti-social, and standoffish, but downright violent. It's no wonder gang banger rap music is the new mainstream in American bars and nightclubs. An estimated 93% of American millennials and post millennials are in gangs. Many have already snorted cocaine, participated in violent criminal activities, and even done jail time by Junior year of high school. And a rapidly exploding number of shootings, armed robberies, extortions, burglaries, and car jackings in America are involving female accomplices. Americans are starting to live by the gun.

[HappyGuy]

An estimated 93% of American millennials and post millennials are in gangs.

Americans are starting to live by the gun.

Is America not bad enough that you have to make up things and exaggerate everything? Winston should make a separate forum for those with mental problems so you can post about kids with rpgs there. Violent crime has been going down for decades because everyone is on the internet. There are no people outside starting trouble anymore because there are no people period. The streets are completely deserted now. In the 90s people didn't have computers and on demand cable so they went outside everyday by the millions but now people only drive.

[Cornfed]

Why can't we have nuclear bombs? It is reasonable for there to be restrictions on some weapons.

There is really no exact answer to what the courts should rule. I guess you would have to go by historical precedent and common sense. It is clear from the text of the Second Amendment that it was talking about a pre-existing English right. So you would look back to English tradition to see what rights to bear arms people had, and indeed free men did have rights, but there were restrictions. Also, the text is about arms you bare, as in carry. It is not about ships of the line or whatever. It is clearly applying to basic military weapons the average soldier would carry. As to where you draw the line, which exact weapons this applies to, where exactly you get to carry them etc., the courts have to make that judgement. It is like lots of things, such as the age of consent, the speed limit etc.

[gsjackson]

Why can't we have nuclear bombs? It is reasonable for there to be restrictions on some weapons.

There is really no exact answer to what the courts should rule. I guess you would have to go by historical precedent and common sense. It is clear from the text of the Second Amendment that it was talking about a pre-existing English right. So you would look back to English tradition to see what rights to bear arms people had, and indeed free men did have rights, but there were restrictions. Also, the text is about arms you bare, as in carry. It is not about ships of the line or whatever. It is clearly applying to basic military weapons the average soldier would carry. As to where you draw the line, which exact weapons this applies to, where exactly you get to carry them etc., the courts have to make that judgement. It is like lots of things, such as the age of consent, the speed limit etc.

Wish I could bare my arms, but it's been damn cold in Serbia lately.

Sorry, Corn. Winston towing a line in a recent post triggered the diction Nazi in me, and now I just had to spring into action.