Could the Trinity & "Jesus is God" doctrine be wrong, even for Christians?

[Winston]

Interesting comments I saw on YouTube about why the Trinity doctrine and the "Jesus is God" doctrine is wrong, and so Jesus should not be worshipped as God, even if you're a Christian.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGY6Vef2Bzo

WatchingMyLifeFlashB

@Tiryah I said the way to the Father is through the Son. I am not Trinitarian or Binitarian or Polytheist either. I do not believe that Yeshua/Iησουσ/Jesus is God. Yeshua prayed to his Father. He also made a request from his Father that the Children which He had given to him not be taken out of the world, but instead those Children should be protected from the Evil One. The spirit of holiness is not mentioned in the Kingdom. The Father is not a person, as we know person's to be. He is the authentic God. Anything other than Him is a god at most, even humans can be gods. Nothing but the Father is to be worshipped. And to Him we submit prayers in the Son's name. The man is our reference to speaking with the Father. And the spirit is personified when the Hebrew, Aramaic, nor Greek say such. Holy Spirit is not a name, it is statement of purpose, an essence, & therefore definitely not a person nor God.

Even the word god is misleading. The OT clearly states that Baal was a god. There is only one authentic God.

I know you meant well, but please don't mistake a person believing in Yeshua as an intercessor with God as believing that man is God. If a secretary from the White House types up an invitation in my name to come a State Dinner after which he wishes to have a brief conference with me in private. The secretary sends it to my home address. I say the President has invited me to the White House to speak to him. Yet, I don't even assume the signature on the letter has been penned by his own hand. I say the President, not a secretary. A diplomat, such as the Secretary of State even, may participate in negotiations for an international treaty. That diplomat's decisions are just as binding as if the President had agreed. Both are concepts of the old signet ring giving authority to underlings without giving away one's title or post. It signifies trust. It also signifies delegation.

The man Yeshua was given authority by God to negotiate, teach, & chastise in His name when the human being was baptized. Even though Yeshua's spirit was from above, he was not God. His body was human, & he was resurrected a human. Anyone saying any different is an antichrist.

God is not flesh. Never has been. Never will be. Humans were made in the image of God, not as clones. That is why it was such a sin for Eve to believe that it was okay to desire to be the same, an equal. The best mankind can attain is being Sons of God. Yes, we'll judge angels, but not because we want to, but rather because that duty shall be bestowed.

Just because the majority of selfprofessing believers are covert Polytheists doesn't mean everyone is. The path to the Son standing at the gate is very narrow, difficult to find, & exceedingly unpopular.

It is hard for anybody to get across all of what they hold faith in & everything they have pruned off, plucked out, cut off, or denounced in one YouTube comment. And a person's understanding of truth is always becoming more clear, day by day. So one day's commentary may misrepresent the person a week, a month, a year, or decades later. None of us know everything.

But what I do know is that Polytheism as stated in the Trinity is just that evil that scriptures call Pagan worship. From the time that I became a believer in the Son, I have never thought that he was God, prayed to him, or said he was. I may have stated that others have said, as documentation of what others believe...but such has never been part of my testimony.

The Son is a human. He is a subordinate to the Father. He is waiting for His Father's approval before he can legally come get his bride. He is not God. He is on the same team as the Father, but so am I. And neither of us are God.

I don't know if I articulated what I believe in that respect so that you can understand it, but I hope so. Just because others think or believe something doesn't mean I or every one does.

Most people would be shocked or even offended at some of the hidden manna the spirit has shared with me. The deception being perpetrated on mankind is more extensive & all-emcompassing than the average TBN watcher or church, synagogue, or mosque attendee would ever believe. Mankind is under a mass delusion by individual choice.

And only intense study with prayer & the leading of the spirit of holiness & living a life filled with love for all other humans & forgiveness to every human ever brings ongoing revelations of truth. It is not just one thing. It is everything with the rosecolored glasses fading over time. It's sad how few even have a clue.

And no matter how many tidbits are revealed, none of us have a clue. The more that is revealed, the overwhelming sense of what is unknown is deafening. Only the Father through His Son.

And there's nothing Polytheistic about that. You say the cops found a missing child in the woods. It may or may not be mentioned that cops had a trained dog sniff a sweater & follow an unseen trail. But the child is not considered found until humans find the child. The child is never an adult & the adults found the child. And no one with any brains are worshipping the dog.

Don't worship the Son. Period.

WatchingMyLifeFlashB

@Tiryah The only way "to" truth. When cops use a dog to find a lost child, is that leading dog anything human or otherwise? Is that dog a cop, a human parent, or a child? No.

In the same way, the human Son of God leads us to God, but is never God. To insinuate that just I said the Son is the way to...that I worship him is wholly unfair.

WatchingMyLifeFlashB

@Tiryah I do not think Yeshua is God, thank you. Please do not put words into another person's mouth. You are bearing false witness about me by reading one or two posts of limited characters typed into the comment section of a single YouTube video.

The Son leads to the Father. The spirit of holiness is not a person of God. It is not even mentioned as being in the coming Kingdom. Evil won't exist at that point so holiness will be everywhere but it isn't God. The Son leads the way to the Father. The Son is my King.

Only the Father is God. Take care before assuming all believers are cookie cutter Trinitarians or Binarians.

Understanding that teamwork causes the working out of the plan of the Father isn't the same as worshipping anything or anyone other than the Father.

WatchingMyLifeFlashB

@Tiryah The Son leading to the light & the truth is not polytheism. Are there multiple Presidents of the United States because he has a press secretary for dealing with the public when he is unavailable, unable, or for convenience sake, desires not to speak directly to the public? Of course not. The Son is an intercessor. Moses was a diplomat. Abraham was a friend. No human is the Father.

Attempting to categorize me as a Polytheist when I cleared stated that I am not reveals that you are blind to what I believe as you infer that I am blind or a liar. I am not a Polytheist, despite your false judgment that I am.

A man did not create a single thing. Logos (word)/ Light (did) Hearing & seeing is believing & the beginnings of life as the earth before & eventually as we know it began with sound & light. Humans did not exist until the sixth day. Thus, a man could not be the Creator.

In the book of John verse 1 is most often mistranslated as ... the Word was God, yet that is a mistranslation, either through unfamiliarity with the common use in the Koine Greek without the definite article vs. the possible, and exceedingly rare, absence of the definite article meaning the same as if present. The Logos was not God. Polytheistic theologians choose to translate the first verse to prove their theory, which is just that, a theory. Their bias isn't mine.

Rather the common structure connotes "having the likeness or attributes of" something or someone. The Logos was like The God. Being like something is not equal or exactly the same in every detail. A generic prescription is not the brand formulation. Baking soda & lemon juice is not baking powder. Equal is not sugar. Yeshua/Iesous/Jesus was not God. He did not even exist as a "man" at the time of Creation.

The Logos existed next to, toward, & like God, but was never God. That light was the light of all (eventual) mankind & nothing was made apart from it. So, let me repeat, the Creation was not done by the Son as the no human known as Jesus/Iesous/Jesus yet existed.

In addition, no man has ever truly created anything. Even the only begotten Son of God never created anything during his earthly ministry. And without the power of the Father, his preincarnate existence which is far beyond anything present humanity can comprehend, the Son could not have created anything. The Father was the architect & provider of power, while the Light was like a building contractor. And even as the Roman, Cornelius, was knowledgeable of, power delegated can then be also be given onto an even lower subordinate so the one who actually originally provided the power never even has to lift a literal or figurative figure. The word of God will not return without having completed that which it was sent out to do. The highest General does not dig a trench, throw a grenade, or pull a trigger in combat.

Understanding hierarchy is not applying polytheism. Neither the spirit of holiness nor the Son is the Father.

To further illustrate, the Son even refused to change stones into bread, even though he evidently had the power to do so. If he wouldn't even transform in a way that would have slighted the Father, how could I or anyone else honestly think that he was the Creator? He wasn't. A bricklayer, a carpenter, an electrician, a roofer, nor a plumber are ever the Architect.

Likewise, the Son did not create the sheckel which was in the mouth of the fish either. It was evidently there. He told Peter to go get it, but he was not some sort of magician pretending to create it. And it was not a counterfeit. Apparently, a fish had accidently swallowed a Roman coin, & when the Son was asked for a Roman didrachma, he gave exactly twice the amount requested, a sheckel. Everything the Son did whether as the Logos or the Light or even later as a man was done in subservience & obedience to the Father.

The Son did not even create the bread & fish that the thousands ate or the fish which the apostles miraculously hauled in when tossed in the net obediently. The only, through the presence of faith, multiplied what was already present, pointed out the locale of something, or instructed on how to correctly harvest or heal, whether fish or men.

Remember, the coin in the fishes mouth was not the Son's. It was Caesar's coinage, & when the servants of Caesar demanded coinage, the Son surely wasn't going to steal from the provisional moneybag carried by Judas. He rendered onto Caesar that which was Caesar's. He ensured that Roman coin was returned to its proper Roman owner.

Likewise the stones in the wilderness belonged to Satan, as he is the present ruler of this world. The Son surely wasn't going to take that which was Satan's. He wasn't going to believe the smooth talk & misleading promises. Life comes from the Father, period. So unless the Father informed the Son to change lifeless stones into living food, whatever the stones would have become couldn't have satiated his hunger.

The Son was not a God nor the God. A team player doesn't make one the team owner.

It takes many years of studying, praying, asking the Father for enlightenment & discernment, & listening to the spirit of holiness to understand that everything the Son did was in obedience. God has no one to which obesience is given.

When you ask the person at the tollstation which exit is for Disney World, you don't really think he owns Disney World, the turnpike, the rest areas, the restaurant, souvenir shop, the toilets, gas stations, & everything in between, do you?

The Son is the shepherd. Our guide. Our light. Our teacher.

That is not Polytheistic. That is truth.

Attempting to twist my words into something they were never intended to say or mean isn't brotherly. Yet, I forgive you. We are all at different points in our walk. And truth is decimated ultimately according to will of the Father. That is even why the Son had to request that those Children whom the Father had given him not be removed from the world. God only gives orders, not makes requests. Saying the Son is a guide is not even compatible with calling him God.

Blessings.

WatchingMyLifeFlashB

Without the Father sacrificing his firstborn son, previously symbolized by all of the firstborn sons that had died long to Egyptians in the first Passover, there would be not salvation of the rest of His children who had been held in captivity of sin. The Father mourned, the veil being torn in the Temple, the dead saints in Jerusalem rising out of their graves & contacting those alive. If Jesus were God, then God would have been dead. If God, the Father of all life died, the breath, the wind, of him which is in you, me, & all that is living would have instantaneously died. Poof. If Jesus is the Son of God, a Father mourns the death of the one He bore, just like any loving, caring human father mourns the death of his son. Yeshua experienced the same type of anguish concerning the death of his pupil & close friend, Lazarus, even though he knew that he was going to resurrect him from the dead. Knowing that life has ceased, even temporarily, should cause emotion. If a person if immune to compassion for those mourning, of the capability to mourn if the dead one was close, reveals a lack of love.

So, no, Jesus is not God, but rather the spitting image, human likeness of the Father. BTW: the grammatical structure of John 1:1 is periodically elsewhere in the scripture & is nowhere else translated as "is", "was", or an "=" sign. Everywhere else is is translated like, similar to, or having the same attributes as. Even the word was with God part is not entirely accurate. A better translation would be towards God. The Logos can't be towards something, it already is. That is why Jesus could say, Not my will, but Your will shall be done. Two distant entities, yet both having the same goal, the salvation of humanity from the grasp of the Evil One. Team playing with different positions on the team. There can only be one head of household, a final decision maker. And the Father is just that. That's why the Lamb is described in Revelation as being under the throne & later as on the throne at the Father's right hand. Separate yet same goal. Jesus never said he was God. He approved of Peter's statement that he was/is the Son of God. And Remember, the Pharisees were accusing Jesus to be blasphemously claiming to be God, a false accusation. Most people take that to be that Jesus was God without honestly looking in the scriptures to see if that was true. He forgave sin. The Pharisees claimed that only God had that authority, meaning they forgave no one. The Pharisees claimed that Jesus cast out demons via the power of the devil. And Jesus then asked them by what power they use to cast out demons then. Jesus having been given power & authority to heal, resurrect, & cast out demons doesn't mean he is God or the devil. Pharisees we're accusing. Jesus even said that there will be those the cast out demons in his name, prophesy, & do wondrous works that won't gain entrance into the kingdom because despite their good works, they hadn't be doing the will of his Father who is in heaven. Jesus never knew them. So healing signs alone is not proof. The Son said there was only going to be one sign & one sign alone, the sign of Jonah, three days & three nights. God can not be dead for 3 days & 3 nights. A humanborn Son of of God can. The Pharisees claimed Jesus was saying he was God & pretending to be God. They were the ones lying. If your honest, you'll see that he was very clear that he received any & all of the power & authority he had & has & will have from the Father. He never told people to pray to him. How shall we pray. Our Father, who...Pray to the Father in my name...that's telling people to use his name as a reference to gain entry or consideration. Jesus is our intercessor, human & heavenly, but not God.

The Pharisees lied & Jesus wasn't going to defend himself. The Father had foretold his inspection/trial, his sacrifice/crucifixion, from the beginning of time as man knows it. The same way Isaac had been born to illustrate a father willing to sacrifice his own eternal, the true Father followed through. Apparently, Jesus had thought that maybe a ram with its horns caught in the brambles might allow the cup to pass from him, so he could remain on earth, with his apostles, teaching disciples, healing followers, & being a watchtower in respect to Pharisees, Saducees, scribes, the Sanhedrin, & hypocrites in places of power. Scripturally, it appeared to Jesus that the crucifixion might not need to occur or occur right then. He asked his Father if there was another option. Jesus wanted to live & commune with mankind. And the Father instructed him that there was no other option. If mankind was to be saved, it had to be on time. So just as the Father had offered up His son, Jesus likewise, agreed to be that willing lamb. The Father had watched as Isaac had faithfully allowed Abraham to lead him to the place of sacrifice just the Father had been present for the walk of Jesus to Golgotha. The Father had watched the building of the wooden altar by Abraham just as he watched the erection of the crucifixion stake & watched as the Son, His son was bound. Many question the verses when Jesus asks Eli, Eli, why have you forsaken me? If the Father had interrupted & stopped the sacrifice of sinful Isaac when He knew that He would be later resurrecting him as He had already promised that it would be through Isaac that His promises to Abraham would be fulfilled. Apparently, the Father couldn't bear to watch Jesus die, that's why things went dark. The Father knew His son wanted to live, but was being obedient to Him & dying for his brothers, mankind. The ground shook. The Father was alive & his beloved son was dying at the hands of sinful men. His son was asking the Father to forgive the perpetrators. Previously, the Father had given angels the duty to make sure that his beloved son would not even incidentally stub a toe. How hard it must have been to watch the proceedings in real-time, not just plans & prophecy. The Father could have sent in His angels. The Son could have come down off of the deathstake, just like the observers were taunting. If Jesus could restrain himself & submit, the Father had to forsake, meaning "abandon", Jesus during the final moments. The Father can not abide evil. The death of an innocent man is evil & reproached & eventually accounted for throughout scripture. The Father couldn't watch it done to His son. Also, if Jesus was or is God, how could God forsake God?

All scripture starts falling into place the more one studies it. And most of the time, the truth or the truth being systematically revealed is so much different, opposite, or completely alien to what is being taught & believed by mainstream Christendom.