Pros and Cons of Living and Dating in the Philippines

[The_Adventurer]

In defense of a couple of things, it is not just foreigners. They do these things to each other as well. In fact, the owner of the house my American friend rented left that subdivision and moved to one of those exclusive rich areas, because the neighbors treated him like you describe. He was filipino. One neighbored dared ask him for 200,000 pesos just like that!

In a house full of locals, I noticed that anyone leaving the house was hounded for pasalubong by the kids.

I once dated a girl from a very rich family, with multiple cars, even brand new, and many real estate properties, and she still acted like the girls you describe in regards to spending. She was highly educated with 3 degrees too. Still, I had to say, "If I buy this, we we will be eating canned food for a few days." before she "gets it." Nothing came between her and her food. Yet an hour later we could have an intelligent conversation about The Da Vinci Code or Datu conquest in local history.

[globetrotter]

Why not just cut to the chase and tell them you are a Cheap Charlie?

Or suddenly your mother in the USA needs expensive monthly medical treatments. You just sent her another 200,000 dollars.

[Shokkers]

So, in conclusion, hit up the Philippines to get laid, and then bail out again.

After reading this, I'd bring my own food with me (no joke, I heard the food prices in London were sky-high so I filled half of my suitcase with non-perishable food...it also left room for souvenirs for the trip back...and I was glad I did). I'm guessing you don't want to buy anything there that you don't have to, either.

[MoscowSummerNights]

Interesting post Winston. Some data needed to process this more however.

What income are you operating on? I've said elsewhere that any American whose taken business courses and has English writing ability as great as yours can act as an outsourced division (support, marketing) of many American mid-sized companies and get at least an income of $2000 per month for that, easily (and doing a great job can bring that closer to $3000 at least in short order).

What do apartments rent for in Manila and elsewhere? Is a laptop in danger of being stolen if it is at home and the landlord and neighbors always want money?

What would an income of $2000 per month get an American in terms of quality of apartment and economic class of girlfriend? Would that change at $3000 per month?

Are you saying the women with the best English tend to be more left-wing? Or do you believe political correctness means they think more like conservative American Fox News watchers?

Are you saying the middle to upper middle class women won't date Americans? Enquiring minds want to know.

[globetrotter]

Filipinos act like money grows on trees because it does.

To them.

They are from a tropical island culture near the equator with 2 or 3 growing seasons.

This means that food is never a problem and their values were like what Cook found in Tahiti in the 1700's.

So they don't care about wasting food because food is plentiful and grows copiously in the RP.

Just replace 'food' with 'money'.

[Winston]

Here are some great responses I received to this by email:

LMAO Winston!

I have lived and volunteered in 11 countries since 1980 and visited the Philippines twice. This is TRUE in the Phils and also in many other 3rd world English Speaking places I have been LOL

Expats who have made it and continue to live there have learned to adjust to it, because forget changing them! Those who cannot adjust, become disenchanted and return home with myriads of "horror stories"

Thanks for a really entertaining story as well as an informative one! I haven't laughed so hard in a long time!

Winston,
Great article! I used to be stationed at Clark back in the 80's - you're right about this stuff. And it hasn't changed over the decades. I still saw and experienced this when I visited in 2008.
Keep up the honest writing!

U nailed it dude

[Winston]

Interesting post Winston. Some data needed to process this more however.

What income are you operating on? I've said elsewhere that any American whose taken business courses and has English writing ability as great as yours can act as an outsourced division (support, marketing) of many American mid-sized companies and get at least an income of $2000 per month for that, easily (and doing a great job can bring that closer to $3000 at least in short order).

What do apartments rent for in Manila and elsewhere? Is a laptop in danger of being stolen if it is at home and the landlord and neighbors always want money?

What would an income of $2000 per month get an American in terms of quality of apartment and economic class of girlfriend? Would that change at $3000 per month?

Are you saying the women with the best English tend to be more left-wing? Or do you believe political correctness means they think more like conservative American Fox News watchers?

Are you saying the middle to upper middle class women won't date Americans? Enquiring minds want to know.

A very small income. But that doesn't matter. In their minds all foreigners have bottomless pockets and price isn't an issue. I get sarcastic on them when they think that and tell them I have a million pesos in my pocket. They don't get it, as they don't understand sarcasm or that I'm making fun of them.

So how can I get $2000 a month for outsource support? If it was that easy, lots of people would. Can you give me more details? I'm sure many of us would want to know.

As to apartments in Manila, ask Mr. S. I am in Angeles. You can get an apartment here for between 3000p and 12,000 depending on location and how big and furnished it is.

I have never had anything stolen in my apartment, even though I live in a Filipino neighborhood. But then again, Chinese are treated with respect here and Asian foreigners are not as targeted as badly as whites are. Plus I have a kind looking face that brings out kindness in others here.

I didn't say all Filipinos were opportunists, just that many of them are, and so you will run into them from time to time. I can't really get used to it, cause it insults my intelligence when they pull their stupid routines.

$2000 a month is overkill here. You can live good on $500 a month, less if you don't go to any bars or fancy restaurants.

Gene and Viola survive on $130 a month, believe it or not. I don't see how though.

I don't know, it's just that middle class English speaking girls get more offended easily and are more opinionated. Less sweet and humble in other words. I guess money and knowledge corrupts women more than men?

I mean you can easily find affluent financially secure men who are still nice and honest. But when women get that status, they act more snobby and unpleasant. They change more when their economic status changes. I guess they are more corruptable in personality, whereas men are more rational? That's my guess.

Most middle class Filipinas don't date foreigners. But some do. Here in Angeles though, the locals are kind of anti-American. But in Cebu, the locals are more pro American, so I heard it's easier to date a middle class girl there. But yeah, of course it's easier to date a broke girl than one with money, relatively speaking.

[MoscowSummerNights]

Hi Winston,

What is the peso $ exchange rate?

Your comments about middle class women lack PUA language but are easily explained by them. No foreign woman is likely to date an American making less income than many of the local men she has access to. Whether or not an American can "get by" on $500 per month is less relevant to how much per month do upper middle class men make on average within 100 miles. If I made less than $1000 per month in Eastern Europe, I could survive OK but I wouldn't get very far with most of the best looking women.

Luckily, American companies are outsourcing functions like crazy. Here are some ideas:

1) Sales - You can ask a company if you can take over sales for the Pacific Rim, claiming you are in the right time zone and their salespeople would have to work in the evening to properly make calls and handle customer support. Demand $2000 per month and commission and they have to pay when you fly to Tokyo or Singapore to meet a distributor or take the bus to Manila to meet a distributor.

2) Marketing - You take over the website and Twitter and Facebook account of an American company. Nobody does physical mailings anymore so it no longer matters if a marketing person is at the home office in Detroit or not.

3) Customer Support - This is great not only for dealing with a company's Asian customers, but, during your day hours, you can easily work the "evening shift" of American companies answering calls from American customers currently in the USA during evening hours their time.

What time is it in the USA when it is 8AM to 6PM your time?

These are just a few ideas. Many PH companies, especially in Manila, would want someone who speaks fluent English to help them market their products back to Americans.

Forget the foreign bride business or teaching English because it is too easy, like driving a taxi, and that always leads to the lowest possible income because of the housewives who are willing and able to compete with you for peanuts.

If this helps you triple your income, you owe me a free night's stay in your new apartment by the beach.

[globetrotter]

$2,000 USD per month is not that much money here in China. I know people making that much teaching English. More, even. Some make $3,000 per month. Sure, executive placements to China from USA firms make $10k per month, but who wants to work load and stress?

When it is 8 am to 6 pm in the USA it is 8 pm to 9 am in Manila and China. This means a night schedule, disrupted sleep patterns, and low quality of life.

Most of us who moved away from the USA are tired of the success obsessed culture of America and the work yourself to death attitude. Working the nightshift in Asia via telecommunting sounds like more of the same USA hamster wheel of death grind.

[MoscowSummerNights]

Is inflation really that bad in China that $2000 is normal for your average alpha male 30 year old Chinese businessman? If that is the case, dating the best looking Chinese women will not be easy for an American on a budget. If an American can easily make $3000 per month teaching English, that wouldn't be bad at all in Eastern Europe and, apparently, the PH.

I definitely did not write that any American in Asia should work HIS night hours. I wrote that you can work what the Americans would have as THEIR night shift.

Sales: Work the Asian day shift while the home company back in the USA cannot find anyone who wants to call prospective customers in Asia at night (USA time).

Marketing: Work the Asian day shift - Check in at 6PM with your team leader (insist that he or she come in early or stay late to accommodate you and not the other way around.

Customer Support: Work the Asian day shift which is the American evening shift (when American customer support people do not want to work but most of the American customers for that product or service are in need of support during those hours)

[globetrotter]

Is inflation really that bad in China that $2000 is normal for your average alpha male 30 year old Chinese businessman? If that is the case, dating the best looking Chinese women will not be easy for an American on a budget. If an American can easily make $3000 per month teaching English, that wouldn't be bad at all in Eastern Europe and, apparently, the PH.

That is for China. EE and the RP are entirely different with lower pay rates. China is cheap to live in. Inflation has nothing to do with it.

Successful businessmen pull in 50k++ a month. CNY. That is $90k a year. That makes you insanely loaded. You can afford to rent an apartment (or buy if you want to) and set up as many hot women as you want.

An apartment costs 5k CNY to rent. To buy 250k CNY. A fancy car is 250k CNY or more. So in 6 months he has a place and in a year he has a ride and then he gets the honeys.

To get that pay doing ESL you need to have business sense (which no ESL teachers have) and be experienced in business culture (which most ESL teachers hate). Set up privates, work a large city, 25k a month is easy with 40 hour weeks. Western Managers make 75K CNY or more a month. That makes them quite rich, even in Shanghai.

[MoscowSummerNights]

So in other words you are saying that the ESL teachers mostly screw themselves over with upper middle class women by having a lousy attitude about business, not because there isn't a lot of money to be made teaching English.

I agree. It is more the artsy, anti-capitalistic nature of these types that causes them to appear to upper middle class women like what the Roissy blog calls "Beta Herbs".

In Russia last year when the crisis hit and I was briefly without a top management position, I walked into a major English School and interviewed.

The interviewer knew I was over-qualified and said so.

I insisted on being considered and she politely said she would (of course I never did hear from her although I didn't call her to say I had found something better two weeks later).

In the cafeteria after the interview I sat down with gorgeous female employees of the school. They admitted that they felt I was overqualified and that they were flirting with me precisely because they assumed I would quickly find something much better. They were right. I did.

Corporations will pay big money to be represented by someone who has the right attitude, dresses well and writes in perfect English.

[globetrotter]

So in other words you are saying that the ESL teachers mostly screw themselves over with upper middle class women by having a lousy attitude about business, not because there isn't a lot of money to be made teaching English.

No, I am not. Look, you need to read what people post and stop inserting your agenda and opinions into their posts. It is clear what your pov is and you only see that, and nothing else. You assume that ESL teachers want to get upper middle class women, and I don't know where you inferred this from my post. That is your bias. It is not mine, nor many who move to Asia. Most of us just want a good girlfriend regardless of her socio-economic class. I have dated upper class and upper middle class women in the West and they are more trouble than they are worth. Often Feminist, and usually expect the world.

Most ESL teachers are stupid and socialist and have never had a real job, pro union, all that crap. But they don't want upper middle class women either.

In order to do what she (those umc women you desire) wants that often requires money. Money requires that I earn it. To earn it requires hard work and stress, and I don't subject myself to stress anymore. I consider pursuing Alpha Male status to be a fool's errand and a waste of time and lifeforce energy. Winning? That is for people who lack awareness.

I agree. It is more the artsy, anti-capitalistic nature of these types that causes them to appear to upper middle class women like what the Roissy blog calls "Beta Herbs".

In Russia last year when the crisis hit and I was briefly without a top management position, I walked into a major English School and interviewed.

The interviewer knew I was over-qualified and said so.

If you are top management then you should be be smart enough to know that when interviewing down ladder to dumb your resume down. I do it, you should be smart enough to know this also.

In the cafeteria after the interview I sat down with gorgeous female employees of the school. They admitted that they felt I was overqualified and that they were flirting with me precisely because they assumed I would quickly find something much better. They were right. I did.

Corporations will pay big money to be represented by someone who has the right attitude, dresses well and writes in perfect English.

If one wants to work hard and work yourself to death in the pursuit of top management positions and upper middle class women. From my point of view of the age of 50 and having been poor and worked my way to well-off, I think that being successful is a scam and a waste of time. I would rather eat a 72¢ bowl of noodles in a rundown cafe in Central China than eat an $80 steak in Los Angeles at Delmonicos or Whatever Place is Hip, Cool, Happening, and Expensive. I would much rather flirt with the girls who cut my hair ($3) than with the girls in L.A., even if the L.A. girls look like Film Stars.

No thanks.

That lifestyle is one of death and empty accomplishment.

[Repatriate]

If one wants to work hard and work yourself to death in the pursuit of top management positions and upper middle class women. From my point of view of the age of 50 and having been poor and worked my way to well-off, I think that being successful is a scam and a waste of time. I would rather eat a 72¢ bowl of noodles in a rundown cafe in Central China than eat an $80 steak in Los Angeles at Delmonicos or Whatever Place is Hip, Cool, Happening, and Expensive. I would much rather flirt with the girls who cut my hair ($3) than with the girls in L.A., even if the L.A. girls look like Film Stars.

No thanks.

That lifestyle is one of death and empty accomplishment.

What you're describing isn't necessarily connected. You can be successful for your own personal fulfillment without putting on the "face" and keeping up with the joneses by participating in the other nonsense. I know a few well off people who mostly keep to themselves and their small circle of friends. They managed to do very well for themselves and they still have time to do whatever they want.

Also, with women you just have to be as choosy as most women are with their men. The good thing about dating middle-to UMC women is they can be very self sufficient. If you find the needle in the haystack gem of beauty, brains, and good social status who gives a shit then you'd be a sucker to not pursue that for all its worth. Unfortunately in most cases it's very difficult to find women like that and you need to socialize a lot to come close to finding a good match. Most men aren't that active socially either so they tend to "settle" for third or fourth best devaluing themselves in the process.

[MoscowSummerNights]

I realized too late that the phrase "What you are saying" might be construed falsely to mean "you will agree with this entire comment that follows".

I only meant that we agree on the psychological makeup of most ESL teachers.

As far as having an "agenda," I guess the main reason I posted was because there is a good part of the foreign bride seeker audience that can *only* date and marry UMC women, and this crowd was being ignored by Winston in the original post. Winston has to assume many of us have higher degrees.

Some of us fully expect to consume healthy food, for instance, and the post would scare a lot of UMC American men considering "Happiness Abroad". I am sure one can eat healthy there, but his post wasn't written in a way that would reassure me on that.

To earn at least $2000 per month, a man has to have a laptop and a cell phone that gets email. Winston needs to reassure men on what places to live in the PH where those crucial survival items won't be stolen.

Of course, alpha males don't necessarily need lots of money to do well with the best looking women (I will disagree with the PUA crowd in that I believe money does matter a lot however). If he is doing OK and has "game", a man can do quite well anywhere. Being alpha just means not being willing to live with a woman you are not sexually attracted do...and not secretly wishing you could be having sex with a umc 10.

Educated UMC's are not doomed to be feminist. In Russia and the parts of Eastern Europe that US feminists haven't captured, the most educated women can be extremely non-feminist and even anti-feminist (knowing all about what US feminists are up to and not wanting any part of it).

What I am understanding, however, is that the US feminists have taken over Philippine society and its "educated class" (witness the Gabrielle society and the banning of "mail order bride" agencies). Apparently, the better they learn English, the more unadulterated BS they read and hear from the left wing media in the USA. Conceivably, the better they learn English, the more Marxist tripe they read about US males "exploiting" Filipinas.

If the average IQ in the PH is 85, maybe the "educated upper middle class" are those around the 100 level, which is still too stupid for me and where most lMarxist feminists operate.

If that is the case, the PH would be a nightmare for me and any American man who hates feminism but still expects a woman with an IQ of 120 or more and extremely well educated. Still - American TV shows and books are not so bad anymore. Shows like "Hannah Montana" and "Sonny With a Chance" might show young women dating their own age, but they are not entirely hateful of older men ("Hannah Montana"'s father is a great looking alpha male).

And I've seen recent American TV programs meant for US teenage females where a teen girl makes the remark about a middle aged man "Just give me a few years and I'll marry him". What I am saying is that feminism can be beaten back culturally, even in the USA, making it still possible to date those who consume American media.

It is one thing to give up the rat race of trying to have status with California 10s but another for Winston to suggest moving to the PH and giving up status with Manila 10s or Angeles 10s as well - especially when it might take a lot less money to impress a umc 10 in Manila than in San Francisco. Many of Winston's readers will refuse to move abroad if it means they will have to accept 6s and 7s that they can get at home in the states as well. Much of the anger of US males with the American dating scene is that the best looking women, the 9s and 10s, are not so available to them as they might be elsewhere.

In Eastern Europe I can have sex with lower class 10s, but the umc 8s and 9s will seek me out themselves and are the ones who will seriously expect me to be their boyfriend in the end. I have no choice but to be with a UMC and, in the PH it would probably have to be the case as well.

Keep in mind that, for me and most men regardless of what education class of women we seek out, the overriding factor is a woman's looks (at least in the first five years of the relationship). A clean smelling non-slutty poor 10 is better than a umc 9. A umc 10 is better than a poor 9. Also a umc 9 is better than a poor 10 if the poor 10 smokes cigarettes and is, thus, on her way to quick physical ruin. Nothing disgusts me more in a lower class woman than the smell of cigarettes on her breathe.

I admire men who can think (translated into pua language) "I like my 6 because she is loyal and sweet".

It must be great to be 50 and satisfied with one's woman and no longer "on the hunt for 10s".